It's time to talk about shrimping
5 year(s) ago • 28711 views • 143 replies
"Hip escapes are essential to bjj from every bottom position..Whether anyone agrees or is irrelevant. We all do it all the time. As far as it leading into getting subbed does not matter as any move can lead to sub when timing is right and properly set up to go down that path." Wait just bench press them off |
"So you don't think there are any black belts who just baby bridge and don't shrimp? None at all..." I think black belts use what is necessary at any given scenario.. somethings pan out and somethings fail, be it a hip escape, baby bridge, inversion, brazilian legs etc. I can't imagine rolling hard without any hip escapes being used. They work, otherwise they would have been eliminated a long time ago. Bjj tends to keep what works and get rid of things that do not. Even then, some of those things come back in fashion once practitioners forget about them. Nothing is new in this game. Humans have been doing some form of jiu jitsu for millennia under different denominations, but it's still jiu jitsu at the end of the day. I am of the opinion that we should not discount anything that (techniques) works. Just learn to use them or set them up in different ways or hide them until you can deploy them against an unsuspecting opponent. "Shrimping" or what I call the hip escape is no different. |
Just wanted to add that if you combine a baby bridge with a hip escape and incorporate a frame or create an opening to get to an elbow your opponent will be forced to transition to make up for the space you create. If you fill that space before him and go on the offensive, you would have the advantage at that point. Hard to put into words what I mean but if you can picture it you will know what I am saying. (Edited 5 year(s) ago) |
"I think black belts use what is necessary at any given scenario.. somethings pan out and somethings fail, be it a hip escape, baby bridge, inversion, brazilian legs etc. I can't imagine rolling hard without any hip escapes being used. They work, otherwise they would have been eliminated a long time ago. Bjj tends to keep what works and get rid of things that do not. Even then, some of those things come back in fashion once practitioners forget about them. Nothing is new in this game. Humans have been doing some form of jiu jitsu for millennia under different denominations, but it's still jiu jitsu at the end of the day. I am of the opinion that we should not discount anything that (techniques) works. Just learn to use them or set them up in different ways or hide them until you can deploy them against an unsuspecting opponent. 'Shrimping' or what I call the hip escape is no different." Of the black belts I'm thinking of, I've never seen them shrimp in any of the matches I've watched, but I haven't seen all their matches so I'll ask them next month if they ever use it. Jiu jitsu is old, but Brazilian Jiu Jitsu isn't. Wrestling is much older and more refined. Wrestlers have won high level BJJ tournaments with no specific BJJ training, I'm not aware that any BJJ guy has ever entered and won a high level wrestling tournament to do the same. In mixed martial arts, wrestling produces an order of magnitude more champions than BJJ. Currently there's a UFC champion who is a blue belt and another than became champion as a blue belt. Keenan Cornelius is of the opinion that the most commonly taught guard pass, is fundamentally unsound. So I just personally don't see BJJ as the super-refined art that you do. I see multiple suspect techniques taught out of habit rather than merit, which is a common human thing to do. |
"Wrestling is much older and more refined. Wrestlers have won high level BJJ tournaments with no specific BJJ training, I'm not aware that any BJJ guy has ever entered and won a high level wrestling tournament to do the same. In mixed martial arts, wrestling produces an order of magnitude more champions than BJJ. " Why do you waste your time training bjj then? Just train wrestling. "So I just personally don't see BJJ as the super-refined art that you do." I never made this assertion. My statement leans more towards bjj is constantly refining and redefining what works and what does not. In the end you get to choose to do whatever you want. "I see multiple suspect techniques taught out of habit rather than merit, which is a common human thing to do." Guess you've seen it all in that short time you've been training. I suggest opening an academy and starting to give seminars. Maybe we can learn a thing or two from you. |
"'Wrestling is much older and more refined. Wrestlers have won high level BJJ tournaments with no specific BJJ training, I'm not aware that any BJJ guy has ever entered and won a high level wrestling tournament to do the same. In mixed martial arts, wrestling produces an order of magnitude more champions than BJJ. ' Why do you waste your time training bjj then? Just train wrestling. 'So I just personally don't see BJJ as the super-refined art that you do.' I never made this assertion. My statement leans more towards bjj is constantly refining and redefining what works and what does not. In the end you get to choose to do whatever you want. 'I see multiple suspect techniques taught out of habit rather than merit, which is a common human thing to do.' Guess you've seen it all in that short time you've been training. I suggest opening an academy and starting to give seminars. Maybe we can learn a thing or two from you." I could ask you why you come on a forum if you just want to use ad hominem attacks instead of logic! |
"Perhaps the move per se isn’t magical as a side control escape, but moving one’s hip is the solution to most problems beginners have when playing bottom. Thus as a drill it is essential to learn how to move one’s hips effectively." I follow your point but my experience dropping in on various clubs is that there's a disproportionate attention on shrimping drills as opposed to say granby rolls. I don't know that I've been to a representative sample of clubs but I'd be interested if your experience is the same? And if so, do you think shrimping deserves more attention? |
"Maybe, different situations, require one to shrimp, or baby bridge, or otherwise move in the manner appropriate for that situation... Just maybe." I suppose you get a better chance of getting your guard back from bottom side control by shrimping, that's the only advantage that I can think of, but my ears are open. This thread was a joke from another thread by the way. |
"I find that the way people do shrimps/hip escapes going across the mats where many people try to set a speed record isn't exactly the way that it is required to work in 'combat conditions' I highly recommend the free volume 'Self Mastery' by John Danaher as he goes into this in great detail." I bet he does go into great detail! I'm currently working through about 10 hours of his kimura system so I'll put it on the list after that |
"I could ask you why you come on a forum if you just want to use ad hominem attacks instead of logic!" There was no attack in any way nice try. My memes are meant as jokes. I made my point and you countered. I am just pointing out that you should not duscount anything in the art. Suck it up. If your feathers get ruffled over my comments that is more of a reflection of your state of mind while reading the responses. In the end you and your opinions as well as mine are irrelevant. |
"There was no attack in any way nice try. My memes are meant as jokes. I made my point and you countered. I am just pointing out that you should not duscount anything in the art. Suck it up. If your feathers get ruffled over my comments that is more of a reflection of your state of mind while reading the responses. In the end you and your opinions as well as mine are irrelevant." I don't see your opinion as irrelevant, actually i'm interested in your logic. Particularly if there's a bottom side control situation I haven't thought of where shrimping has the advantage over baby bridge? I can only think of one personally. As per the memes, it's just a cultural thing that's tiresome at the moment. Like if you question the medical advice of your country that has lead to the 3rd worst death toll in the world, then people reply with "so are you a doctor?" or if you think your politicians aren't doing a good job then people say "why don't you stand for election then?" or a straight white man shouldn't have an opinion on something that doesn't primarily effect straight white men. So you're right about state of mind, I don't know how things are where you are, but here - nobody is going out and socialising a lot in real life so BJJ is a happy place that I just want to throw around ideas half heartedly and not be constantly reminded that I haven't been training that long. |
"I don't see your opinion as irrelevant, actually i'm interested in your logic. Particularly if there's a bottom side control situation I haven't thought of where shrimping has the advantage over baby bridge? I can only think of one personally. As per the memes, it's just a cultural thing that's tiresome at the moment. Like if you question the medical advice of your country that has lead to the 3rd worst death toll in the world, then people reply with 'so are you a doctor?' or if you think your politicians aren't doing a good job then people say 'why don't you stand for election then?' or a straight white man shouldn't have an opinion on something that doesn't primarily effect straight white men. So you're right about state of mind, I don't know how things are where you are, but here - nobody is going out and socialising a lot in real life so BJJ is a happy place that I just want to throw around ideas half heartedly and not be constantly reminded that I haven't been training that long." On its own the hip escape has limitations as do most techniques. That is why I made the additional comment. (image) When you combine it with other things it can be very effective. I watch alot of tape. High level guys can say they do not hip escape but they all do in tandem with something else. MG uses a subtle hip escape movement all the time in combination with a sit up that is out of this world. Modify your hip escape but don't just abandon it. It just might get you out of trouble. I do not discount anything in grappling. I just absorb and make it work for me. |
Check out this 15 year old video that earned a positive comment from Joe Lauzon :) https://youtu.be/TseJc0NAMv4 |
"Check out this 15 year old video that earned a positive comment from Joe Lauzon :) https://youtu.be/TseJc0NAMv4" I like the frame across the belly, but i don't like to push with two hands on their leg because of this counter: https://www.youtube.com/w[...]M&t=1s I take your point though, if i had the frame i'd still be seeing if i could get my legs back which i suppose we could call a shrimp :-) |
"Check out this 15 year old video that earned a positive comment from Joe Lauzon :) https://youtu.be/TseJc0NAMv4" Good stuff Jorgen |
From someone who actually loves to play guard...shrimping is crucial in getting out of bad positions even if your a big strong dude that can just manhandle some people if you want. The reality is someone will always be bigger and stronger than you and have more pressure and cardio than you and at some point you will be forced to use technique. And yes at any given position you don't have to use any certain techniques but the more you can threaten someone with the better you will be and shrimping is a good technique when those more intense techniques fail. I for example if mounted I might have to shrimp or micro shrimp to regain quarter guard then do the same thing to get lockdown and force my opponent back to then get my guard back or go on the attack with underhooks or whatever if I was not able to escape mount with an easy reversal to start with. The thing is...is that really good guys are not going to allow you to do a lot of the "easy" or "intense" techniques that allow you to use a lot of power or movement. They are going to remove all your space or flow on you like your a paddleboard and they are just surfing and as soon as you think you've got one post isolated to set up a sweep or reversal they will counter that with proper posture and post management and that is where the "chess" comes in. There are some purple and brown belts and mma guys that train a certain way that still might not be very flowy and may mostly just use intense and or pain related techniques but when you actually start sparring against people who could literally surf ontop of your body or remove every inch of space your start having to use a different style and sequence of techniques. You should just force yourself to start every spar being mounted or only having 1/2 guard or 1/4 guard against a much bigger, stronger, heavier, and more experienced opponent that has a more relaxed flow to him that isn't an MMA guy, that is a more jiujitsu guy that isn't trying to use pain to tap you out, but that can make you feel like your in quicksand and every move you make you just get deeper and deeper. That guy prob is not going to help you understand the power of the shrimp as that guy will just destroy your hopes and dreams. But when you face other guys that size and style closer to your skill level you will THEN start to see the power of the shrimp. |
